JACOB ZUMA INTERVIEW

 

UPS: - FENLEY - Early today Special Assignment spoke to Jacob Zuma at his Forest home. This was his first television interview after being not found guilty of rape. We asked him about his childhood his political ambition and about the woman who accused him.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT - Good morning Mr Zuma and welcome to our programme and thanks for talking to us.

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT - Thank you very much.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT - I want to take you back sixty years a little bit more than sixty years to Inkandla to rural as it was known there in Zululand. What was it like growing up there and what does some of your fondest memories of that time.

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – Well I think it is a wonderful thing to grow in the rural area in its own way. And I think I had an advantage of knowing three different areas in my early age. My rural Nkandla which is my home, kwa-Maphumulo which is also rural but in the mission area and Durban because my mother worked there as a domestic worker. As a hereby what do you remember wonderful life to be free to be out there in the veld, to hunt, to hunt for honey and eat honey you know and also to be taught how to grow up to be a man, a man among man.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – Who was your mentor at that stage when your political awakening started?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – well when my political awakening started one of my elder brother who was in an ANC and in the Trade Union Movement he was very talkative he was one of the volunteers of the ANC very proud of it but also my being in visiting and coming to Durban from time I was exposed to ANC activities. And when finally I joined the ANC and one of the people who were part of the people who taught me politics was Moses Mabida, Harry Gwala but my real mentor was Chief Luthuli.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – Did you ever think you will rise to this position?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT- Never, never at all. I was joining the ANC to be part of the struggle and to ensure that we are free. I never thought about any rising that was not the issue

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT –In 1999 you were sworn as Deputy President of the country. When did your aspiration to become President begin?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – I didn’t have an inspiration to become the Deputy President. I never had any inspiration to become any thing in the ANC. The ANC has always given me the tasks even leadership tasks I would imagine I remember this very well because in 1977 when I became the member of a National Executive Committee I didn’t think I needed to be part of that I thought that was leadership and I went to Secretary General of the ANC then Alfred Nzo and said to him I am sorry I don’t think I am ready yet to become part of this aghast organization. As it would happen and Nzo said to me Comrade Zuma it is not us as individuals who decide about where we are deployed it is the ANC that decide and the ANC is never wrong. The ANC has give you a task you undertake it and thus is the way I have gone up in the ANC I never had inspiration and aspirations about becoming something else. As would see if you look at what I’ve done in the past it is ANC that decided you do this and do that. And therefore any task that the ANC has given to me I always taken it and said I would do my best in it.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – Why do you think you were picked to become the Deputy President?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – Well I do not know. The ANC must have thought this man we’ve known him. He has been given a number of task he might as well take this task. We think this task will be the task that he will undertake I would imagine.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – Now you believe and many people with you believe that there is a conspiracy to keep you from becoming the President. Do you still believe that and what do you base those facts are there any facts?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – I would rather not deal with that question I would try to say perhaps let us not deal with the question because I think it is not just a simple question. It is a question that if I wanted to deal with it I wouldn’t like to deal with it in a kind of media. It is a question you know that goes perhaps to very sensitive and serious areas so is there conspiracy or no conspiracy I think I know that the media says quite a lot about it.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT –You think there is a conspiracy?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – I do not want to answer the question yes or no. It the question that I think at the right time I could say things about it.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – When will be the right time? You also writing a book

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – I haven’t started writing a book but I am not very far. I’ve been just delayed I should be writing it now been delayed about what has been happening. When I write my book perhaps if this issue I’ve handled it in a manner that I think it is appropriate particularly for my organisation.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – How did the rape trial affect your political career do you think.

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT - I am part of the political life of this country. As you know the moment this issue hit the press and say I am innocent I am not guilty. But the media didn’t want to wait until the matter is proven in court. They’ve tried me they insulted me they convicted me they did everything I do not know how much that how could you quantify that to the truth. The judge has said Zuma is not guilty agreed with me as I said from the beginning after listening to evidence after weighing everything. But we’ve got some people who were not qualified whose duty is just to report what has happen. Actually conducting a very vicious campaign running shows and everything I do not know whether that has done any damage or not that is why I am saying it is a matter of how you look at it

 

AD BREAK 1

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – You’ve got huge support and that was very evident during the trial but there is also a lot of women organisations who particularly vocal about things that came out in court. Are you worried about that kind of support that might have lost?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT - No, no, no the support is not the issue I am not about do I want to be supported or not supported. Is about how we deal with the matters in our country so that our country moves forward. Now in any court situation a court situation is totally different from any other court situations. In court you take an oath you’ve got to tell the truth you can’t be diplomatic. You can’t say things you do not want to say. You can’t say things in an around about way you’ve got to deal with facts in court this is what I believe many people did not realise that in court you can’t want to be smart and nice you’ve got to tell the truth and I think this is what happened in court. What then ought to be appreciated is was what then happens when the final judgment comes. My point I do not have no criticism for people to campaign but the campaigning must reflect why the stage is of any problem. What is wrong is to say when there is an allegation and make an allegation a conviction I think that is my problem. But you can’t keep quite because it is an allegation you must say look this allegation is very serious you might even say if it is true it is serious but people talked about as if it is truth. What I did for an example once the allegation came much as I knew I am innocent from day one I said because of the nature of the allegation and because of my views on issues of women and children because I am very much against the abuse so women and children I said because of it before the matter is concluded in court even though the constitution says you are presumed innocent until proven otherwise. I took a voluntary decision to move myself from responsible structures of the ANC to allow the case to move. That in its self tells you that much as I knew I was innocent I could have said look I am here and I am innocent but I said I know the nature of it let me wait let me allow the court to move. Why couldn’t all of us allow the process to move then we could condemn somebody once the judgment is gone that is my problem and I think we should all help our society and our people including organisation that may be non-governmental organisation. I am not happy with what has been done to the lady because I do not think who knows the judge could have found that Zuma is guilty and you already condemned the girl that is why we’ve got the law that’s is why we’ve got the constitution that is why we’ve got our courts let us allow our judiciary to do their work without our interference because this business of trying to influence things is not right. Once people do that they provoke reaction I think we as leaders ought to find a way to handle things responsible.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – You mentioned the lady the complainant in the case what would you say what do you think what is the motive behind all of this

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT –No, I gave an answer in court when the prosecution kept on asking me I said I’ve got a speculation only I do know. I wouldn’t want to take it further than that.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – What would you want to say to her if you run into her in a supermarket for instance.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – At the moment I do not know at the moment I do not know how she feels. I do not know how she will react and I do not know what I will say to them it will become an offence or whatever. So at the moment I would want her really I think she needs help that is my view. I do not know if I am a qualified person to give that help right now given what as happened. I think she does need help I think that how even everybody should understand it. I do not think I would want to bounce on her and raise issues. I am sure if I bounce on her at the supermarket I would greet her I do not think I harbor any ill feelings.

 

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – some of the things that came out of court must be very embarrassing and very personal. They talked about your HIV status they spoke about the fact that you did not use a condom while this woman was HIV positive the fact that you took a shower and afterwards you said you thought it might minimize the risk. The shower for instance.

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – The shower was misrepresented. I didn’t say so

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – In what way?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – To say that I will take the shower because it will remove AIDS I didn’t say so. It is one of the normal things you wash your hands as Kemp said in court after having put your hands in anything it is a normal thing really can’t make a big story out of it. It was part I was answering questions. What did you do after this I’ve go to tell what happened. And taking a shower why did you take a shower because I’ve been with a person that I knew what her status were but I also dealt with the minimal things in terms of the risk and everything. I think it was taken out of context to a large extent. Court is court I think I am a human being. You can’t say if you are a human being when things are said in court because once the matter goes to court then the things are going to be said whether embarrassing or not embarrassing. I think to me what was critical was the charge did I rape or not rape. And my point is I never rape and on that one I think I have been found not guilty that is a charge I had to answer. Other details came in the process as people talked about it and in no way could I say I did a good thing by not using a condom. On the issue of unprotected sex I would like to say categorically that on this issue I should have been more cautious and more responsible I add on this issue and on this I apologise I have no doubt about it, it was a mistake. It is like if you are a commander of the forces you make a mistake once you make a mistake you get injured it does mean the war stops. The war against AIDS I will stand for it and I will fight I will continue, and I will continue to preach even using my example that we need to fight HIV- AIDS because it is a dangerous thing. It is a mistake that I did that I apologies for I’ve got no doubt about it

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – So the message to the youth will be condomise

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – Condomise. ABCT I added T test I’ve said so I still continue. A, B, C, which are well known I added T test know your status that is why I’ve been testing all the time. That is why I now I am HIV negative it is important to know your status. But it does not take away that this was a wrong thing that I did for which I apologies

 

AD BREAK 2

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – You never produced a document to say that your status is negative in court were you thinking of doing that?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – No, no when I was asked the question by the prosecution I said the document is with my lawyers. It is with my lawyers they never asked for it.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – Do you think there was a lot of damage in to campaign. Do you think it will take years to change people mind set

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT - I think the campaign goes on and I think in a sense put the more emphasis on what we do. I think the campaign continues that is why I am saying if you are in any situation on a campaign if there are mistakes that are done it doesn’t mean the campaign is dead. You rectify that you continue and I therefore think it has given more alertness it has said we need to do more, we need to be able to do what we talked about and that is why I am saying it is matter I cannot deny. It is a matter that I say this was a wrong judgment this was a mistake and that for people must no use that not to move forward. I am going to be part of the campaign to bring about awareness I am going to be part of that.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – there was also the whole issue of Zulu culture when you spoke about women wearing revealing clothing  or a woman in a state of arousal that you can’t live her like that. Do you want to comment on that.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – I do not think so. I don’t think we need to comment about that I said that in court because it was necessary in court

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – Yesterday when you came out in court there was this huge number of people this huge support that you’ve seen outside how did that make you feel? Were you surprised?

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – The huge support has been there you know the people have come from Durban, from Johannesburg which was very good by the way. A wrong notion was given by the media that Zuma is a Zulu and he has been supported by the Zulus. I been in the ANC and I think I am one of the leaders of the ANC who has support across the country. I think this case to be in Johannesburg made the point abundantly clear people came from different places because of the support they have. They said themselves. I think as I said to them I feel happy. I feel I belong to this country and I think people recognise.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – We coming to an end know. Is there an ethnic rift in the ANC?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT - No not in the ANC there is no ethnic problem in the ANC. There maybe ethnics problems to individuals in the ANC not the ANC. The ANC have a very clear policy and in a number of occasions when there are political tensions people love rushing into tags. Even some of the wars that are fought in Africa are on ethnic basis you actually find that there is no ethnic problem. I’ve been dealing with those issues. The problem is individuals who utilise that for their own benefits that is a problem. The ANC as an African National Congress as an organisation has a clear policy on issues of tribalism and anti-tribalism etc

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – The T-shirts the 100% Zulu boy do you have problem with that?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – that is done by the people expressing themselves in this free country. And they’ve done so to many things. It is their own choice it is their own what you call what they do. I think we are a country that allows free expression it was during apartheid where symbols and other things were outlaw burnt not allow government was intolerant of them. Here why do you fear if people put their shirts and say we love this man why should I have a problem. They are expressing their own views about it they may have reasons different reason I do not know. The problem I had that is when they were burning the picture of the President that is the problem that I have. And I spoke out about it that cannot be correct but if the people say we love our Secretary-General Kgalema Motlanthe and printed his head why should I have a problem why should I. They can choose anybody else I mean am saying as far as I am concerned there is no problem.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – You’ve had a call from the ANC to say come and talk and talk about the resumptions of your duties

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – I spoke to the Secretary-General on that matter

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – And what is coming out of that

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – the question of when I am going to resume you know my time was that it was during the case the case is over and therefore I am back. I took a decision that was accepted by the ANC for the duration of the case. The case is over so there is no question about it.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – Do you see yourself as capable of leading the country?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – I never seen myself as capable. I always been seen by the ANC and I’ve always been ready and I am ready now if the ANC said go this way be the chairman of the branch I will be. If the ANC said we send you as an ambassador somewhere I would go. So anything that the ANC said I must do and the ANC only that decides.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – During exile you were very close to President Mbeki

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – I’ve been always close to President Mbeki and we still close. I think only now that I suspended myself we haven’t been meeting on a weekly basis. Now that I am going back I am going to meet him on a weekly basis.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT –You still have a case coming up in a few months time do you want to comment on that?

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – I wouldn’t want to comment on that as you know. I always said on that case as well I am innocent and I will also deal with it when I get to court.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT –If you do not become President what is the future hold for you?

 

 UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – I’ve got no difficulties any ambition I am an ANC member my future is the ANC. As the member of the ANC in the first instance and if the ANC decide to give me responsibility wonderful. That is my future the ANC.

 

UPS: - JOHANN ABRAHAMS; SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT – Thank you very much

 

UPS: - JACOB ZUMA; ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT – Thank you very much.