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caused by human error or electronic fault. This transcript was
typed from a transcription recording unit and not from an
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the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual
speakers, errors cannot be ruled out.
FENLEY: Living in derelict
buildings has become a way of live for many poor families in
Johannesburg’s inner city. A recent high court ruling has put a
stop to their eviction but the fight for somewhere to live for
thousands of residents is far from over.
UPS: - VOICER –Determined to
transform Jozi into a world class city by 2030 Johannesburg
embarked on series of forced removals of poor people from
inner-city buildings. The red ants became a familiar sight.
UPS: - YAKOOB MAKDA; REGIONAL
DIRECTOR CITY OF JOBURG - Our evictions orders are not to put
people on the street our eviction orders are there which the
sheriffs of the court execute because the building is not
habitable.
UPS: - STUART WILSON; RESEARCHER
WITS LAW SCHOOL FOR APPLIED LEGAL STUDIES - These evictions are
not about health and safety at all it actually about telling
poor people in a not so subtle way that the city has no place
for them in the inner city.
PRE-TITLE: NO ROOM FOR THE POOR?
UPS: - VOICER –Multi-storey San
Jose is close to Hillbrow. It’s become a symbol of the fight
between the city and its poor. On the one hand the city
determined to clean up its bad building. On the other residents
clinging to the roofs over their heads.
UPS: - NELSON KHATHANE; SAN JOSE
RESIDENT - No the city doesn’t want us here. They don’t want us
here. They only want us when they want us to vote for them they
say we are too dirty we are to poor. We must go to shacks in
Soweto. This is South Africa we belong here. Where must we go.
UPS: - YAKOOB MAKDA; REGIONAL
DIRECTOR CITY OF JOBURG - The buildings that we closely define
as bad buildings are the ones that pose a health risk and its
also a safety risk for people that actually live in them.
UPS: - NELSON KHATHANE; SAN JOSE
RESIDENT - In the shacks there is fire there is water same as
here. That place is dirtier than here. And we are making our
living in town here.
UPS: - VOICER –For the past two
years, San Jose has been on the list of buildings the city wants
to upgrade. But the stumbling block has been the more than three
hundred residents living here. Nelson Khathane is one of the
leaders of the San Jose community. He was willing to show us.
UPS: - NELSON KHATHANE; SAN JOSE
COMMITTEE MEMBER - We are patrolling here from eleven to half
past three sometimes four, we chase people that are sleeping in
the garage here, we beat them. There is no customers at home, no
work, here you go and sell in the station customers come at
least you make twenty or thirty rand a day here you make your
own living by selling.
UPS: - STUART WILSON; WITS LAW
SCHOOL CENTRE FOR APPLIED LEGAL STUDIES - San Jose is a
sectional title building so you didn’t have one owner there you
had ninety odd different owners as the original tenants started
to sub-let because of the demand for accommodation in the inner
city the more hands the money had to pass through the more
likely or the less likely it was to get to the people who supply
the water and electricity and employ the security guards and
then clean up the building. The building went into decline there
was not central management and the water and electricity was
finally terminated somewhere around 2003.
UPS: - VOICER –The residents
themselves have since cleaned up their building under the
supervision of Nelson and his committee.
UPS: - NELSON KHATHANE; SAN JOSE
RESIDENT - Look this is the original key of this flat that the
owner gave me. This is where I am staying now.
UPS: - VOICER –Nelson introduced
us to Khombisile Khumalo. She lives on the third floor with her
husband and three children.
UPS: - NELSON KHATHANE; SAN JOSE
RESIDENT - There is no water we go begging down there where we
used to get water, the municipality closed there so they close
the tap.
UPS: - VOICER –Her husband Mboweni
Tshabalala is a street vendor in town. To supplement their
meagre income she and her sister make cushions. They all come
from rural KZN.
UPS: - NELSON KHATHANE; SAN JOSE
RESIDENT - Khombisile and her husband are staying here they have
been chased downtown by the municipality, they closed down the
building from there they came looking for a place to stay so
they talked to us. And we said here is a place it is empty you
can stay in that flat. Everybody that come her has to come
through us first. We just don’t put every Jack and Jill we check
the person first.
UPS: - VOICER -Do they pay money?
UPS: - NELSON KHATHANE; SAN JOSE
RESIDENT - No they don’t pay. The only money we collect from
them is for cleaning, plastics and brooms. We collect two rand
each house.
UPS: - VOICER –Around the corner
from San Jose are these four abandoned houses. One hundred and
thirty people live here and the city plans to evict them. Shacks
have been built on the properties. We met up with WITS
Researcher Stuart Wilson, and Shereza Sibanda from inner city
resource centre. They’re helping residents fight ongoing efforts
to remove them.
UPS: - ANGELINA LEGARI; JOEL
STREEL RESIDENT - I can see this is not the right place to
stay…but it is because of the situation. We are suffering we are
not working. Haven’t got a place to stay that’s why I am staying
here.
UPS: - STUART WILSON; RESEARCHER
WITS LAW SCHOOL FOR APPLIED LEGAL STUDIES - And people who live
in the inner city generally have access to livelihood in the
inner city they pump petrol they clean and guard buildings, they
recycle commercial waste, they are hawkers on the streets so on
the one hand you have people that are essential to the inner
city economy.. but on they other hand because you fail to
provide for them here, you tell them you can’t live here so you
have to spend a huge amount of money on transport getting in and
out of the inner city every day.
UPS: - VOICER –Last month the city
of Johannesburg applied for evictions orders for these and other
properties but a ruling by high court Judge Jajbhay put a halt
to all evictions. The judge ruled that before the city can evict
it must provide adequate housing for those unable to support
themselves and their dependants.
UPS: - STUART WILSON; RESEARCHER
WITS LAW SCHOOL FOR APPLIED LEGAL STUDIES - The prime
constitutional argument is that it is not constitutionally
permissible if you’re the state to seek the eviction of large
number of poor people where you do not have a rational plan to
re-accommodate them.
UPS: - NELSON KHATHANE; SAN JOSE
RESIDENT - We won the case against the municipality now I
understand they appealed against the judgment so now we don’t
know what is going to happen again…we are living in fear of
being evicted.
AD BREAK 1
UPS: - VOICER –Massyn Court in the
heart of Johannesburg. It’s one of the worst building in the
city. A resident named David shows us around. We’re greeted by
the stench of human waste and rotting garbage. Some of the walls
in this high rise building are missing. This makes it dangerous
to use the stairs especially at night.
UPS: - DENNIS LEVE ; MASSYN COURT
RESIDENT - I’m not working, got wife and children back home I
don’t like to stay here but I don’t have money to pay rent…I say
I don’t have money to pay rent. I’m not working.
UPS: - ALVIN SAMPSON; MASSYN COURT
RESIDENT - I am just looking for money to eat only the rest I
know I lie down here. I come pick up books and nicely arrange
them and then sleep.
UPS: - VOICER –Last month a fire
broke out here. Packed with illegal immigrants, twelve people
died. Survivors were temporary shelter at the metro evangelical
Service Building.
UPS: - YAKOOB MAKDA; REGIONAL
DIRECTOR CITY OF JOBURG - as we approach winter we know there
are going to be more fires lit in these office blocks that are
converted into illegal housing, so people are actually taking
their lives into their own hands.
UPS: - STUART WILSON; RESEARCHER
WITS LAW SCHOOL FOR APPLIED LEGAL STUDIES - There are fire risks
there are health risks, but the question is how do you address
that, do you address that by throwing people out on the streets
with nowhere else to go or do you address it by providing people
who have to live in those buildings because there is nothing
else, they cant afford anything better, with alternative
accommodation which is decent, safe and habitable.
UPS: - VOICER -JEANWELL on Nugget
Street is another abandoned building. People are living here
with no water or electricity
UPS: - JAMES MAILA; JEANWELL HOUSE
RESIDENT – In this building we’ve been staying for a long time
we’ve been paying rent before.
UPS: - VOICER – James Maila is
one of the committee members in the building.
UPS: - JAMES MAILA; JEANWELL
HOUSE RESIDENT – Because the owner doesn’t pay rent. Water cut
off, electricity cut off. We keep order we close the gate about
ten o’clock during the night, till we open it half past five
UPS: - CONSTANCE; JEANWELL HOUSE
RESIDENT - Its raining, no water, its dark.
UPS: - SHEREZA SIBANDA; INNER CITY
RESOURCE CENTRE - they tried their level best like go to the
council ask if the water can be opened so that they can pay the
rent since the owner was no longer there to help them with no
success at all. To they decided it’s better for us to stay in
here that to stay in the street where they are exposed as women
to rape, exposed to the cold weather outside. The people who are
staying in these buildings have paying rentals paying for
services to the owners and to the managing agents, but those
people were not honouring the payments to the service providers
and they have not maintained the properties, when they felt that
their pockets were full then they decided to run away and leave
the tenants in the buildings. The tenants with lack of
knowledge of how to manage the building they just sit like that
and say oh the guy is gone, and wherever there is a cut off to
go to the city council and say call you help us we need water we
are prepared to pay. They are always told to go and look for the
owners of the buildings.
UPS: - VOICER –The city is also
targeting so-called hijacked building leaving paying tenants
extremely vulnerable. We met Hendrik de Klerk who works who
works with the authorities to take back buildings like this one.
He explains the strategy used by hijackers.
UPS: - HENDRIK DE KLERK; BAD BOYZ
SECURITY - they kick the security out and replace it with their
own aggressive guards and that’s how they take control of the
buildings. Our general manager was killed with his bodyguard
here in Hillbrow it’s a dangerous game
UPS: - VOICER -But it is also a
lucrative business.
UPS: - HENDRIK DE KLERK; BAD BOYZ
SECURITY - A lot of money, you take a building with hundred
units they collect a thousand rand from each unit, it’s a R100
000 tax free per month a year R1.2 million.
UPS: - VOICER -Nilesh Bhana is the
owner of another hijacked building on Eloff Street.
UPS: - NILESH BHANA; PROPERTY
OWNER -I purchased the building in the late 2003 with the
intention of extending our business on ground level we got five
legal tenants, and on the second and third level we got 48
illegal tenants. I have heard that they have a committee formed
and they are collecting money but nothing is being paid forward
to me. We given them notice with sufficient time to find
alternative accommodation to move out. So far with lawyers fees
its in access of hundred thousand rands and we still looking
like we not succeeding
AD BREAK 2
UPS: - VOICER –Metro Evangelical
Services is a community-based Christian organisation. It
provides care fro the inner city poor.
UPS: - JOHAN ROBYN; METRO
EVANGELICAL SERVICES -HOMELESS CARE -We are mainly dealing with
homeless community assisting to there basic needs from a day to
day basis includes feeding, clothing, accommodation, just
basically their immediate needs.
UPS: - VOICER –Most of these
people have been victims of evictions.
UPS: - THEMBILE TIGER; HOMELESS -
We were evicted into the street, always we get evicted, to the
street to the street without a place to stay.
UPS: - YAKOOB MAKDA; REGIONAL
DIRECTOR CITY OF JOBURG - one would find that many of these
people, the moment they are evicted, they are so innovative that
they find other accommodation.
UPS: - STUART WILSON; RESEARCHER
WITS LAW SCHOOL FOR APPLIED LEGAL STUDIES - You are simply
moving the problem around in the inner city you chase people
from one bad building to another practically that does nothing
to eliminate slum living in the inner city.
UPS: - VOICER –Europa hotel was
once a child-prostitution den. Today it’s a model housing
project for low income groups.
UPS: - PIETER BOSCH; METRO
EVANGELICAL SERVICES - Our vision is to change the heart of the
city. We really want to see in what way in a holistic manner
from giving food and providing housing at Madulamoho, to see in
what way we can really uplift the person, to take him out of the
street and put him back into society where he can at least earn
some income and where he can have his own flat or house maybe.
UPS: - RENIER HISTORY OF EUROPA
HOUSE -In 2004 Madulamoho got the tender from the city of
Johannesburg to manage this place. Transitional housing is for
short-term stay…people can only stay for twelve months, they
share a room, they pay per bed, and they pay one hundred and
fifty per month. Communal housing is a little bit up from
transitional housing. This is a typical communal room, this is
where people have got shared facilities like kitchens and shared
bathrooms with other tenants. Here they are paying six hundred
and fifty per month, plus utilities which comes to about two
hundred so it’s about eight hundred a month average, and usually
people share a room like that
I think one of the biggest
problems the social housing institutions face is to keep our
rentals as low as possible this utility rates. And we’ve got
huge fights with utility provider such as Johannesburg water
this building the Europa Hotel was previously a hotel so we are
still getting charged at commercial rates.
UPS: - VOICER –Europa house is an
example of what can be done. However most of the city’s social
housing projects cater for higher income groups.
UPS: - YAKOOB MAKDA; REGIONAL
DIRECTOR CITY OF JOBURG - What we are trying to do is to provide
housing through agencies, through companies and through section
twenty one companies, to provide housing for a cross section
income earners. We’ve got the Oberg housing company. with their
brickfields project. And they have a number of buildings in the
inner city.
UPS: - STUART WILSON; RESEARCHER
WITS LAW SCHOOL FOR APPLIED LEGAL STUDIES - The Brickfields dev.
is a social housing development and only viable for people who
earn. most people in those develop will have to earn upward of
three and half thousand rand a month what the city should be
doing is developing accommodation for people earning a thousand
rand a month, five hundred rand a month, the average income for
people on these properties is four hundred a month, now they
will say this is not financially viable but that is exactly what
the state is supposed to do. It is suppose to step in where the
market fails. It is there to guarantee basic constitutional
rights for people that can’t afford them.
UPS: - VOICER – San Jose is also
part of the city’s housing plans. The recent court judgment has
for now put these plans on hold.
UPS: - NELSON TALKING ABOUT
PROPERTY COMPANIES - The owner of that building is the same as
that one, their interest is here they want this building you
have to have two thousand deposit plus three hundred levy and
rent for 1thousand rand five a month so we here we cannot afford
this kind of money .that is a huge amount of money. They want to
renovate and charge rent we just beggars we must go sleep in the
street.
UPS: - YAKOOB MAKDA; REGIONAL
DIRECTOR CITY OF JOBURG - One must look at the positive side,
every time an eviction takes place there is a plan behind that
building. That building is improved and that building will
provide suitable accommodation afterwards and the more building
we improve the more availability there is in the housing market,
so unfortunately we are going to have to go through this phase.
UPS: - STUART WILSON; RESEARCHER
WITS LAW SCHOOL FOR APPLIED LEGAL STUDIES - There is nothing in
principle wrong with that, it is the extent to which that
process excludes people that earn less than about three and a
half thousand a month, of which there is an awful lot.
UPS: - NELSON KHATHANE; SAN JOSE
RESIDENT - We don’t want to stay free. What we are saying. Why
they don’t provide us with tangible places for us poor to stay.
We met them half way they met us half way
UPS: - VOICER –Every Sunday
morning San Jose residents are to be found cleaning in and
around their building. They say they’re still waiting for the
city to deal with their sewerage problem.
UPS: - NELSON KHATHANE; SAN JOSE
RESIDENT - This is the upper garage where the judge came in and
he pointed out to the municipality that they must come and fix
the pipes here.
UPS: - YAKOOB MAKDA; REGIONAL
DIRECTOR CITY OF JOBURG - We had undertaken to provide certain
services free of charge we intend sticking to that, we are
looking at the resources required because it is an ongoing
problem in many of the buildings. Pumping sewerage from a bldg
today and it gets flooded in a weeks time is not the solution,
we need to find a long term solution .What we are trying to do
is to improve the social conditions under which people live. If
one cannot economically develop the inner city, create the jobs,
those people are going to remain poor.
UPS: - STUART WILSON; RESEARCHER
WITS LAW SCHOOL FOR APPLIED LEGAL STUDIES - Again if you look at
how the city respond to unhealthy and unsafe shack settlements
outside the city, it doesn’t go and evict people from the
shacks, there are 209 000 shacks in the Johannesburg
municipality jurisdiction it is not about health, it is not
about safety, it is about a capitalist model of regeneration
which has no room for the poor
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