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While every attempt has been
made to ensure this transcript or summary is accurate,
Special Assignment or its agents cannot be held liable for
any claims arising out of inaccuracies caused by human error
or electronic fault. This transcript was typed from a
transcription recording unit and not from an original
script, so due to the possibility of mishearing and the
difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual
speakers, errors cannot be ruled out. LONDON UNDER ATTACK
FENLEY: - A year ago bomber’s
targeted Madrid now they hit London and Egypt. The
intelligent sources believed a new Al Qaeda has risen from
the ashes of the Afghanistan and these attacks maybe their
handy work. This BBC investigation was broadcast a few days
after London was attacked on Thursday the 7th July.
PRE-TITLE -LONDON UNDER
ATTACK
UPS: - MICHAEL HENNING - I
just remembered being turned, twisted, not knowing what was
happening and pushed down onto the ground.
UPS: - CAROLINE CHROBOK -
There was a bit of smoke pouring in and it was sort of this
horrible smell and I could really feel it going down my
throat.
UPS: - PETER TAYLOR - On
Thursday, what Londoners had long been told to expect
happened, the capital came under attack, the death toll now
climbs beyond fifty with hundreds more injured, some
critically. Many were not surprised, I’ve spent the past
year investigating the way Al Qaeda has changed, taking the
Madrid train bombings as an illustration, for London it was
only a matter of time. Madrid may well have been the blue
print, both attacks bear the bloody hallmark of the new Al
Qaeda. Before Thursday life carried on as usual, there were
some who claimed that the threat was hyped by government to
justify increasing curbs on civil liberties, on Thursday the
nightmare became real. Over a year ago I interviewed
Scotland Yard’s head of counter terrorism, his words still
ring in my ears.
UPS: - Sir DAVID VENESS; Head
Specialist Operations, Metropolitan Police, 2004 - A danger
remains, there will be an attack and I fear it is 'when'
within the United Kingdom, I think the ‘if’ is academic.
UPS: - WOMAN - What was it,
do you know?
UPS: - MAN - I think it was a
bomb. It was at Kings Cross, there was a bomb on the train.
UPS: - TAYLOR - The list of
the dead and injured reflects the diversity of London, there
were Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Christians and those of
other denominations and those of none. A terrorist bomb
does not discriminate.
UPS: - AMBULANCE - Can
everyone please remain calm, as soon as we are ready to
evacuate we will get everybody off.
UPS: - MAN - Can you walk
along please, keep walking along.
UPS: - TAYLOR - Now London
shares kinship with Madrid. A year last March terrorists hit
early morning commuters as they arrived at Atocha station.
There were four explosions, a hundred and ninety one people
were killed, hundreds more injured. The Madrid bomber
struck just before eight, the London bombers an hour later,
in both cases no warning was given. The chilling
similarities between London and Madrid appear to suggest a
common hand, that is why Madrid may help us understand
London and who may have been responsible. It is telling that
the Spanish police have now arrived in the capital to share
the lessons that they’ve learned. As trials begin in Spain,
it’s become clear that the threat is now from a new
generation of Islamist extremists, they're the new Al Qaeda,
street wise, young and home grown, committed to waging
global jihad, that’s holy war, against America and her
allies, the UK is high on their list.
UPS: - MANOLO NAVARRET; Head
of International Intelligence, Guardia Civil - They were
using local people, nobody well trained and a very
simplistic way but very successfully. This is a change for
us because our main priority was to identify an attack like
the 11th of September, or the Bali bombing, or some quite
sophisticated.
UPS: - TAYLOR - Jamal Ahmidan
was a typical member of the Madrid cell, a drug dealer with
a long criminal record, he was radicalised in jail in
Morocco.
UPS: - MANOLO NAVARRET -
Jamal Ahmidan was a crook, he was a common criminal with no
specially distinguishable reason, but I think that he was a
very committed criminal, very a person who was have a clear
idea what he want to do.
UPS: - TAYLOR - Ahmidan lived
life in the fast lane, he travelled through Europe with
fifteen different IDs, trafficking ecstasy, cocaine and
Moroccan hash, he smoked, drank and roared round Madrid with
his girlfriend and was a fanatical supporter of Real Madrid.
It was not surprising he slipped under the radar of Spain’s
secretive intelligence services.
UPS: - JOSE CABANILLAS-SANCHEZ;
Chief of Police Intelligence, Spain - We could never have
imagined that a mere drug trafficker would turn into an
Islamic suicide bomber and get involved in an attack like
this.
UPS: - TAYLOR - The idea that
the London bombers would have stood out as they boarded
buses and trains because of their distinctive beards and
Islamic robes no longer applies. Key members of the Madrid
cell have become what is known as Takfiris, they dress like
westerners and did what many westerners do, they smoked,
drank and did drugs. But behind the façade they were
undercover jihadis bent on killing infidels, that’s anyone
who rejects their rigid interpretation of the Koran. Much
of the best intelligence on Takfiris was gleaned in Morocco
by the general who heads its internal security service, his
teams tracked down and interrogated those behind another
series of bombings in Casablanca, almost a year before
Madrid, he gave an early warning about Takfiris.
UPS: - GENERAL HAMIDOU
LAANIGRI; Chief of Moroccan Internal Security - Al Qaeda’s
new members have to stick to a dress code, to start with you
have to wear a beard and a long tunic, you only go to the
next stage and dress in normal clothes when you go on active
service, that’s to help you blend in to go underground. So
it is when they change their clothes that we know they’re
ready for action and have the potential for violence.
UPS: - TAYLOR - Laanigri
warned Madrid about the new threat, but little was done, as
a result Spanish intelligence missed a number of clues that
might have prevented the bombings. They had not grasped how
much Al Qaeda had changed. Ahmidan even had the nerve to do
a drug deal barely three months before the train bombings,
it ended with him shooting a man outside a bar, no alarm
bells rang.
UPS: - MANOLO NAVARRET - He
had the shooting with another drug trafficker in order to
obtain some money from him.
UPS: - TAYLOR - He shot him?
UPS: - MANOLO NAVARRET -
Yeah, yeah.
UPS: - TAYLOR – Is not that
risky if you are part of a terrorist cell to go around
shooting.
UPS: - MAN - Yeah, yeah, this
is, but...
UPS: - TAYLOR - People you
want money from?
UPS: - MANOLO NAVARRET -
Yeah, because by that time, generally the year 2004, we
estimate that the group was fully integrated, maybe we were
focused on a more sophisticated attack, very well organised,
very well prepared and a clear Al Qaeda bombing attack type
of attack, coming from Al Qaeda.
AD BREAK 1
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UPS: - TAYLOR - All over the
world there have been thousands of victims since Al Qaeda
first launched it is large scale attacks. The intelligence
services grew to know their enemy and its personnel after
years of analysis. They understood it is structure, training
and operational methods, but that was the old Al Qaeda.
Afghanistan was the old Al Qaeda’s hub, before September
11th jihadi recruits came to train in its camps. They then
returned to fight on behalf of their Muslim brothers in
theatres like Bosnia, Chechnya and Kashmir. British jihadis
also went to the camps. After September 11th, US forces
destroyed the jihadi training camps in Afghanistan, the new
Al Qaeda arose from the debris and the dust, the message was
return and fight jihad at home. America’s overall commander
in Afghanistan and Iraq knows Al Qaeda’s global threat. Has
the structure of Al Qaeda changed?
UPS: - Lt-Gen JOHN ABIZAID;
Commander, US Central Command - The structure has certainly
changed, it’s had to change because so much damage has been
done to the structure, but I think it’s also clear that
they’ve become more de-centralized, they’ve developed a
style of leadership where franchises will take more action
that's essentially action that the local leader decides on
for himself.
UPS: - MICHAEL SCHEUER;
FORMER HEAD CIA BIN LADEN UNIT - Bin Laden has always been
very clear that he and Al Qaeda can’t do this alone, that
they need to enlist other Muslims to join them against the
United States and he's always said that Al-Qaeda's first
role is inciter and instigator rather than command and
control.
UPS: - TAYLOR - MI5 knows
this too and I almost certainly considering the possibility
that the attacks may have been carried out by a small local
group with no apparent connection to Al Qaeda. That may
explain why the cell got under the wire, there was not a
scrap of intelligence, no tell tale chatter over the air
waves. MI5’s counter parts in Madrid were equally blind, it
was only later that they discovered that this jihad on video
tape was the drug dealer Jamal Ahmidan, they’d never
realised until then that he was a terrorist. He is claiming
responsibility for the Madrid bombings on behalf of Al Qaeda
in Europe.
UPS: - MASKED MAN - We
declare our responsibility for what happened in Madrid, a
response to you collaborating with the criminal Bush. This
is a response to the crimes that you have caused in the
world and specifically in Iraq and Afghanistan and there
will be more if God wills it.
UPS: - TAYLOR - The direct
reference to Iraq was a further warning to the British
police, they were now coming to terms with the new
de-centralized Al Qaeda and what it might mean for London
and the UK.
UPS: - PETER CLARKE - What
we’re looking at is something which is much more fluid, more
flexible, more mobile and so with that obviously comes all
the associated difficulties of finding, investigating,
detecting and ultimately of course prosecuting.
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UPS: - TAYLOR - If you look
at the attacks in Madrid and Casablanca, those attacks were
carried out by home grown autonomous cells, what does that
tell you about the way in which things have changed?
UPS: - PETER CLARKE - As time
has gone on, we’ve found that we’ve been investigating
groups of British citizens and that is obviously is a great
cause for concern and exploring the international linkages
of those groups of British citizens.
UPS: - TAYLOR - I interviewed
Peter Clarke a few months ago, Britain's contribution to the
US coalition in Iraq was far greater than Spain's, and the
anti terrorist branch in London were already anticipating a
Madrid style attack.
UPS: - TAYLOR - Ferocious
anger lies behind the bombings and not just on the part of
the victims. Anger too drives the bombers and their
sympathisers, most recently over Iraq. We filmed in Regent’s
Park mosque last November, the night the Americans stormed
Fallujah. It fired the blood of radical young Muslims who
had taken over the courtyard of the mosque.
UPS: - MAN - The obligation
is jihad, we need to rise the sword and we need to have the
heads rolling, we need more American soldiers, we need more
British soldiers, we want them killed.
UPS: - TAYLOR - The rolling
heads refer to the brutal beheading videos now emerging on
the internet from Iraq.
UPS: - MAN – It is up to you
the Muslims to decide which camp you are going to side with.
Are you going to side with George Bush, with the kafirs with
the leaders of middle east and Asia are you going to side
with the mujahids Sheik Osama Abu Musab Zarqawi.
UPS: - TAYLOR - Iraq is now
the frontline for the new al-Qaeda. For a new generation of
jihadis it offers training, action and world wide publicity
for their cause. Iraq, not Afghanistan, is the new Al-Qaeda’s
hub and now joins Palestine as the Jihadis’ justification
for terrorist attacks all over the world. Mike Sheuer has
spent much of his career with the CIA analysing Bin Laden.
UPS: - MICHAEL SCHEUER;
Former Head, CIA Bin Laden Unit - What they have done since
9/11 and especially since the support the United States got
in Afghanistan and Iraq, is to sort of launch warning
attacks against those countries that are helping us in those
two places.
UPS: - TAYLOR - Like Madrid?
UPS: - SCHEUER - Like Madrid,
the Italians at Nasiriyah, the British in Istanbul, the
French in Karachi and the Limburg off of Yemen, the Germans
in Tunisia, some Japanese diplomats were killed in Iraq.
Virtually at one point Bin Laden and Zawahiri had named
twenty three countries that deserved to be punished for
helping the Americans, either in Afghanistan, in Iraq, or
Iraq and all twenty three of those countries have been hit.
AD BREAK 2
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UPS: - TAYLOR - Some jihadi
supporters have twisted the news coverage of Thursday’s
attacks for their own propaganda advantage and the internet
carries their message that it is revenge for Iraq. And it’s
the internet, the world wide web that drives the
radicalising power of Iraq, few attacks take place without a
camcorder, computer and internet access to send the images
spinning round the world. In Britain there’s an audience
too.
UPS: - EVAN KOHLMANN - While
a picture may be worth a thousand words, a video up loaded
to an internet site is worth ten thousand.
UPS: - TAYLOR - Evan Kohlmann
studies the internet traffic from Iraq for clients that
include the US government.
UPS: - EVAN KOHLMANN; US
GOVERNMENT ADVISOR - You show a video of someone blowing
themselves up, killing Americans, spreading American blood,
that has an incalculable effect in terms of recruiting
future terrorists.
UPS: - TAYLOR - The videos of
slaughter and beheadings, many too gruesome to show, play a
central a central role in radicalising young Muslims, many
are made by followers of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, Al Qaeda’s
leader in Iraq. We monitored the response to Thursday’s
attacks on Islamist web sites, these were some of the
postings.
UPS: - MAN - They are the
lions of Al Qaeda, Osama has sent them. They are the
soldiers of god. London you have paid a good part of the
price of what you owe for your war against Islam and
Muslims. I hope with all my heart that the heroic lions of
Al Qaeda are behind this, because this has cooled our
hearts, at least those that elected that pig Blair for a
second term can be punished, some of them slaughtered and in
their own capital.
UPS: - TAYLOR - This Saudi
dissident operates a web site quite legally on which Iraqi
videos and claims of responsibility from Zarqawi’s media
operation are posted. He operates from Wembley. A posting on
his website was one of several that claimed responsibility
for the London bombs. I spoke to him before the attacks.
UPS: - Dr MUHAMMAD AL-MASSARI
- You up load it to a trusted site and the guy who is
waiting for it to be uploaded is checking every few hours,
will down load it immediately and send it where ever he
wants.
UPS: - TAYLOR - And it just
spreads?
UPS: - AL-MASSARI - It just
spreads like fire in dry woods, unbelievable. If someone is
sufficiently young and sufficiently capable, he may think he
should join them and we know that this joining is
continuous, ongoing.. massively. So that is really one of
the most massive propaganda. And you know human beings, if
you see an enemy tank being blown in pieces, it gives you
enormous feeling of satisfaction and so encouragement to do
the same.
UPS: - TAYLOR - Do you really
think that a young Muslim accessing this material in an
internet café will say, I want to go and do the same, I want
to go and fight?
UPS: - MAN - I think so, I
think so. It’s very mobilizing.
UPS: - TAYLOR - There is some
evidence that jihadis have left the UK to fight and possibly
train in Iraq, nobody knows in what numbers. Do you believe
that young British Muslims are leaving the UK and going to
fight with the insurgents in Iraq?
UPS: PETER CLARKE;
Anti-Terrorist Branch, Met Police - There is evidence that
some, we do not know the precise numbers, could very well be
very small. There is evidence that some young British men
are have left the United Kingdom with the intention of going
to Iraq.
UPS: - TAYLOR - But there
would have been no need for Thursday’s bombers to travel to
learn how to make explosives. Would be jihadis just have to
log on, training manuals are there at the click of a mouse,
with detailed instructions on how to make and detonate
bombs, carry out kidnappings and make homemade weapons.
These images were found on the hard drive of one suspect
allegedly connected to the Madrid conspirators. The train
bombs were detonated by alarms on mobile phones.
UPS: - EVAN KOHLMANN; US
GOVERNMENT ADVISER - Even at home you have a ‘how to’ guide
to terrorism available at the touch of a button, how to
build a suicide bomb vest, how to build a suicide car bomb,
the motivation and the tools to commit terror.
UPS: - MICHAEL SCHEUER;
FORMER HEAD, CIA BIN LADEN UNIT - They have mounted a great
number of these things. One of them called the
encyclopaedia of jihad is apparently about 12,000 pages
long, based primarily on US and British special forces and
marine core manuals. You can now in the comfort of your home
down load those parts of the manual you want to study,
whether it is bomb making or small unit combat tactics.
UPS: - KOHLMANN - In fact it
is the terrorists who have the technological advantage when
it comes to the internet, it is the terrorists who are able
to mysteriously move through the internet without being
detected, without being seen by law enforcement and are able
to distribute these materials in many cases without any
consequences happening to them.
UPS: - TAYLOR - Let’s just
have a look at one of the websites which is on the forum
attached to your website, you tell me what it is.
UPS: - Dr MUHAMMAD AL-MASSARI
- This is essentially it's a magazine. The word Battar
originally means amputate, so they amputate... but this is
the name of the sword, because the sword has various names
in Arabic, one of them is battar.
UPS: - TAYLOR - And what is
the purpose of Al Battar?
UPS: - MASSARI - The purposes
of Battar is to assist the jihadi with education,
information including even arms information, G3 description
of the G3 gun etc so it contains intellectual articles and
contains also issues about weapons etc.
UPS: - TAYLOR – It is like a
jihadi do it yourself correspondence course.
UPS: - AL-MASSARI - And it is
also recently if someone was able to snatch away the
American manuals about light arms and demolition and he
distributed that also in the internet.
UPS: - TAYLOR - But a young
Muslim could read this, train from it, because it’s an on
line correspondence course in jihad, go to Iraq, use the
weapons against British soldiers, in other words he has
learned from what is attached to your website, how to attack
British soldiers, don’t you feel uncomfortable with that?
UPS: - AL-MASSARI - No, I
don’t feel uncomfortable because if he decide he will
relinquish his citizenship and leave the country and join
the jihad, that’s his right, his privilege, he will be no
British citizen any more, he will be at war with Britain and
that’s the possible choice.
UPS: - TAYLOR - The surprise
to many Londoners is that the capital had not been targeted
before. One of the reasons is that through much of the
previous decade the capital had become a haven for foreign
jihadis, it was as if there were an unspoken deal, we don’t
arrest them and they don’t attack us. Some Muslims called it
a covenant of security, that if you are a guest in a country
you do not do it harm. But that era is over, it’s another
sign of how Al Qaeda has changed. The problem in the ‘90s
was they were not doing anything actively against the United
Kingdom, therefore it made it presumably really quite
difficult for you to do anything had you been minded to do
so.
...top
UPS: - SIR DAVID VENESS; HEAD
SPECIALIST OPERATIONS, METROPOLITAN POLICE, 2004 - Yes, I
mean that is a... I think part of the process of evolution,
that what we are now seeing is unequivocally those groups
are engaged in targeting within the United Kingdom.
UPS: - TAYLOR - So, if
Scotland Yard knew that, why did not they prevent Thursday’s
attack? It is not that simple. The security services
believe they’ve prevented several attacks, up to half a
dozen we were told. Jurors will decide the strength of the
evidence when cases come to court.
UPS: - PETER CLARKE; Head,
Anti-Terrorist Branch, Metropolitan Police - What we have
learned over the last three or four years is that there has
been a considerable amount of terrorist activity in this
country, both in terms of support and in terms of intentions
to mount actual attacks, so I think the only sensible
conclusion to draw is that the threat is very real.
UPS: - TAYLOR - The so-called
covenant of security clearly died some time ago, the north
London cleric Omar Bakri spelt it out for his followers less
than six weeks ago, he began by reading a message from the
insurgents in Iraq.
UPS: - OMAR BAKRI - On the
last 24 hours we increased our attack on the enemy to the
level yesterday they scored 120 operations in Baghdad.
Nowadays there is nothing called the covenant of security in
the twenty first century. Therefore, the Muslim has to, as
one camp, fight against the infidel as one camp. That is
the new reality.
UPS: - TAYLOR - As yet we
don’t know how the London bombers trained and operated, how
they were motivated and how they used the internet. No doubt
more will become clear over the coming weeks. Yasser Al
Sirri, an Egyptian exile in Britain, is one of the most
outspoken champions of jihad, but he is selective in what he
condones.
UPS: - YASSER AL SIRRI - This
could have happened in retaliation for Blair’s policies in
Iraq which may have caused some groups to fight the British
forces in Iraq because they are occupiers and are allied
with American forces, but that does not justify them
carrying out such an act against innocent British civilians.
UPS: - TAYLOR - But innocent
civilians did die in London and some were quick to point the
finger at the cities large Muslim community. Yet two of the
bombs went off in Muslim neighbourhoods with many families
deeply affected. Muslim leaders condemn the atrocities with
prayers for the victims said in mosques across Britain on
Friday. There were concerns that Muslims would be blamed for
the work of extremists.
UPS: - Dr MUHAMMAD ABDUL BARI
- Muslims, non-Muslims, wider society we all are victims of
this atrocity, so I do not think... I do not think we... it
does not come to my mind, because we have been speaking
against any form of terrorism, whether it’s done by
individual, whether it’s done by group or whether it’s done
by a state.
UPS: - TAYLOR - And the East
London mosque, just a few minutes from Aldgate experienced
it is own tragedy on Thursday.
UPS: - DR KAMRUL HASSAN;
UNCLE - Her name is Shahara Akther Islam and she’s a twenty
year old young female, she was essentially on her way to
work.
UPS: - JAMSHAD ALI - My
granddaughter when she was young you know I all the time
look after her... I am feeling very bad.
UPS: - SHAMSUL ISLAM; FATHER
- My brother said it all I have no words to say.
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www.bbc.co.uk/panorama
CREDITS
Reporter
PETER TAYLOR
Camera
STEPHEN FOOTE
BERNARD GLANCY
ALEX HANSEN
NEIL HIGGINSON
DAVID LANGAN
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RICHARD OPYRCHAL
JON STAPLETON
Sound
TONY PASFIELD
Online
BOYD NAGLE
Production Team
LIBBY HAND
KAREN HOOPER
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EMANUELE PASQUALE
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GINNY WILLIAMS
Web Producer
ALEX MURRAY
Film Research
REBECCA FORSEY
BARRY PURKS
KATE REDMAN
STUART ROBERTSON
EAMONN WALSH
Research
NEIL DOYLE
KATHLYN POSNER
Film Editors
GERAINT EVANS
BOB HAYWARD
RUTH HORNER
JOHN KERRY
DOMINIQUE LUTER
ADAM RICHARDSON
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SIMON THORNE
Assistant Producer
STEVE BARRETT
PATRICK BARRE
FIONA BLAIR
MATT COTTINGHAM
PATRICIA DE MESQUITA
JACK ENRIGHT
HANNAH GRIFFITHS
KINDA HADDAD
BILL LAW
BEN LIMBERG
KATY MORGAN
MICK MORTON
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JAMES OLIVER
KENNETH PAYNE
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JENNY STIMPSON
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Producers
HOWARD BRADBURN
THEA GUEST
ANGELI MEHTA
ALICIA ARCE JANE
McSORLEY
SUBNV BABUTA HUW
MARKS
RICHARD BEE JEREMY
MONBLATT
JONATHAN BRUNERT
TRISTAN QUINN
STEVE CONDE PHIL REES
WILL DAWS STEPHEN
SCOTT
FARAH DURRAN GUY
SMITH
TOM GILES SARAH
WALDRON
RUHI HAMID CHRIS WOODS
SHELLEY JOFRE
VIVIAN WHITE
"The New Al-Qaeda" Series
Producer
SANDY SMITH
"The New Al-Qaeda" Executive
Producer
FIONA STOURTON
Deputy Editors
ANDREW BELL
FRANK SIMMONDS
Editor
MIKE ROBINSON
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